Mike Flores is a buffoon. I can say this because I know him better than most of you, and nearly anyone who hangs out with or talks to Flores for an extended period of time will come to this realization. Oh, don’t get me wrong… Flores is brilliant. But he also has innumerable flaws, many of which I will detail here in this very article.
BDM told me a story (which he then asked me not to repeat, to which I would only promise to hold it until the right time), of how he was in his apartment getting ready for a PTQ one morning when someone buzzed their door. Brian asked his wife (Carla) to see who was buzzing them, and she answered,”It looks like some Hispanic grandmother.” Brian replied,”Oh, gotta go, babe. That’s Flores.”
I was talking to Mike just last week about Sol Malka’s deck choice dilemma, and Mike told me of a B/R deck he ran at that Nationals. He told me,”That deck was soooo tech. Nobody knew about it, and we were running all the best cards that people didn’t understand, like Shivan Zombie and Flametongue Kavu – it was sick. I can’t believe people were so bad that they weren’t running Flametongues in their decks. What kind of insanity was that? God, what else did I have in that deck… gotta look it up now.”
“Oh my God, I didn’t run Flametongue in that deck. I must have been really stainsy back then. What was I thinking?”
Another useful anecdote in demonstrating this particular character trait of michaelj was shown at the end of this article.
This is only the briefest demonstration of Mike’s ‘foonery, and some of you might be asking why exactly I would go to such lengths to beat up one of my most popular writers and a guy I consider a friend. Well, when you are attempting to prove that said idiot is in fact the greatest Magic writer of all time, it’s only fair to also demonstrate his foibles as well.
The most recent evidence of Floresian buffoonery came in this article, where Mike claimed that Rob Hahn is the greatest Magic writer of all time. I respect Mike’s opinions a lot. In fact, I have consulted with him frequently before writing a lot of my own theory and history pieces (he invariably tells me I’m wrong), and Flores’s opinion about what the best deck for a particular format happens to be has improved greatly over the years (he’s generally spot-on these days, though part of that should probably be attributed to BDM). However, in the case of Rob Hahn, Mike’s judgment is hopelessly clouded by his own influences.
As most of you know, Rob Hahn is the author of the Schools of Magic, one of the foundational Magic theory compendiums. What many of our newer players and readers may not know is that Rob also took over the Dojo from Frank Kusumoto, raising millions of dollars in venture capital before running the original Magic website into the ground, and eventually moved on to work for The Sideboard magazine under the employ of Wizards of the Coast, before being fired from that job and disappearing from the Magic world at large. Along the way, Rob managed to piss of or alienate most of the people who worked for him, and many people who were around during that period of time still get heated when discussing Rob. He was a polarizing figure of Magic’s past, who just happened to write some of the more influential articles from the early days of the game.
Rob’s writing legacy isn’t really in dispute here, as even I recognize Schools of Magic as groundbreaking and well-written. In my original (and misguided) attempt to propose a Magic Writer’s Hall of Fame, I included him in the second tier of writers, stating that his exclusion from the first tier was merely due to the brevity of his career. I largely stand by that ranking, even though I know it makes Mike’s hair stand on end. Therefore, I’ll run with Flores’s criteria that he proposed for evaluating writers, and turn the lens on michaelj.
1) Facility with Language.
I went back to read a wide swathe of Rob’s work before writing this article, and I just don’t see it. Sure, Rob is good, but he’s no michaelj, shulerj, OMC(j), Aten, Tait(G that sounds like a j), wakefieldj, or rizzoj. When I look at Rob’s work as an editor I see quality, but I also see some wordiness, some big words just for the sake of using big words, and a general lack of artistry. Yes, Rob’s work is technically proficient, and the subjects he covered were often technical so his style jibed with his content. Flores will tell you that in our little world, this is Shakespeare. I actually like this report, but it pales in comparison to what came after it (and I’m a guy who enjoyed being trained in the classics, so I clearly have a respect for what came first, unlike some people (ask Zvi about his opinion of the classics at some point)).
I read a ton, and so does Mike. When discussing classic science fiction and fantasy, Flores and I generally agree on what is excellent. Yet Mike loves Rob’s style of writing, while for me, the majority of Rob’s writing doesn’t convey a lot of energy, excitement, or fun. I respect his work, but I simply don’t love his writing. He gets bonus points for creating the language, but his flair for using it wasn’t particularly special.
2. Significance of Ideas.
When I think of Magic Theory, there are four shining lights that immediately come to mind, though there have been many strong contributions made by numerous writers over the years. Those four names are Hahn, edt, Zvi, and Flores. I won’t go over Rob’s contributions since Mike did a fine job of that, but I will say that I feel Rob’s work has been equaled or surpassed in some areas, regardless of whether or not he came first. (Yes, I’ll be getting to that in a bit.)
Now Mike is right on this one in the sense that no Magic writer now or in the past has ever pulled down millions of dollars through his writing like Rob did. However, Rob just happened to capitalize on a particularly insane period in American history called the”Venture Capital Boom” when people were throwing millions of dollars literally any idea that had the slightest possibility of including the internet. I was working in the tech industry at that time, and the number of outlandish ideas that continually found backers was mindblowing.
So what exactly did Rob do with those millions of dollars, you ask? Very little. The entire story is something for parties like The Bleiweiss or Mike himself to tell, but let’s just say that the Dojo petered out surprisingly quickly for a site that was so well loved and which had few, if any, real competitors. Sure, if you just want to compare the numbers on this one, then it looks like Rob was the most successful person of all time to capitalize on Magic writing. However, if you adjust for the ballpark he was playing in, it ends up that he was merely a .300/30 home run guy who played baseball on the moon.
The Real Culprit
I wrote an article last year where I claimed (among other things) that Zvi was Magic’s greatest writer. I would just like to admit up front that I was young and ignorant then. And I didn’t know what I was saying. And that drugs will make you do and say some things that you will later regret. And also that I did not have sexual relations with that woman. In short, I was wrong. Zvi’s a great writer (he’s still top 3 in my book), but now that I have edumacated myself, I have to admit there is someone better.
It pains me to say this because the guy whom I consider to be the greatest Magic writer doesn’t really need a bigger head. In fact, by writing this I’m probably playing directly into his hands, since he can’t exactly come out and say he’s the greatest without looking like Barry Bonds. Regardless, this isn’t really about him per se, it’s about the game itself. If I’ve been played, it’s irrelevant, as the results would be the same, regardless. The greatest Magic writer is obviously none other than…
Michael J Flores, himself. (Yeah, shocking, I know.)
I’ll start this section by using Mike’s criteria, and then provide further evidence of my own that Mike is an idiot and a genius all at the same time.
1) Facility with Language.
Maybe it’s the hip hop, but one thing I look for when evaluating writers is flow. Does this person’s writing have a discernable rhythm to it? Are they able to sustain the rhythm? Is there an energy behind the writing that drives you to read more, or does the author get bogged down in spots, causing you to lose interest occasionally? Does the author show a playfulness in choosing their words? Is their writing something that people might quote (which generally represents a strong ability to turn a phrase into something memorable)? Are they funny?
All of these questions relate directly to the readability and entertainment value of an author. Flores happens to be one of the more entertaining authors out there. Mike has all of the traits I listed above in spades, which is frustrating as hell for writers like me, because Mike churns out stellar product like it ain’t no thang. His writing has energy, his flow seems effortless, he’s endlessly quotable, and he’s surprisingly funny, even when he’s tackling theoretical subjects that can be as dull as watching paint dry.
Additionally, Mike gets extra points for slang usage (none of that ninny taking points away for incorporating slang). Mike may not have invented mise, tings, gas, etc. but he popularized their use and disseminated them to the masses. He also didn’t overuse slang, which is muy importante.
Mike’s facility with language and his overall entertainment value vastly outstrips Rob Hahn.
2. Significance of Ideas.
As I noted above, Rob’s contribution to Magic writing and Magic theory as a whole cannot be denied. He developed a significant portion of the conceptual jargon that we use, and laid the foundation for future theoretical writing. Without him, the void for discussing and developing the game’s theoretical concepts would have eventually been filled, but perhaps not as swiftly, nor as well as Rob himself accomplished.
However, this is a classic case of the student eclipsing the master. Rob Hahn’s Schools of Magic were once influential documents that every player looked to for a deeper understanding of the game. Unfortunately, many of Rob’s ideas have been disproven or discarded over the years. More importantly, even when Rob got the ideas right, his application was often flawed. This explains why The Schools of Magic, in spite of being consistently lauded by Flores himself as classic articles, are cited much less frequently than”Who’s the Beatdown.”
Flores is old. He was around in the UseNet days. He’s around now. Much of his writing stands the test of time, which is surprising. In fact, Mike has inadvertently provided Type One players with some of their foundational articles, proving that Mike’s ideas not only apply to the format he is discussing at the time, but can be expanded to the game at large years down the road. Mike”gets the game” like few others, and even more important, he is capable of conveying those ideas to everyone. BP (Bad Player) Flores may make too many mistakes to consistently compete on the Pro Tour anymore, but as a writer his talents are nearly unmatched.
If you still don’t believe me, be aware that I have edt in my corner. The dinosaur doesn’t even bother to state his opinion unless he believes what he says is true. I’ll give a list below of some of Mike’s greatest hits, and you can judge for yourself.
I’m not going into a lot of detail here, but let’s just say that Mike doesn’t play baseball on the moon like Rob Hahn did, and he’s managed to continually be one of the most successful Magic writers around. Everyone recognizes his talent, and people are obviously willing to pay for that. Since Mike started writing for StarCityGames.com, he has been approached again by his former site and also by the dastardly Scott Johns over at MagictheGathering.com, who eventually convinced Mike to take over a weekly column for them. Thankfully, Mike is a machine and is going to continue writing for StarCityGames.com in addition to his side project for mtg.com (and most of his fun stuff will probably be published here).
So let’s recap quickly. How did Flores score on his own scale?
1) Flores. Not even close.
2) Flores. Mike has been right more often, has developed nearly as many terms and ideas, and unlike Rob, most of Mike’s ideas have stood the test of time.
3) Hahn, but Rob used his money for evil!
I’ll be honest with you… I was shocked when Flores first started writing for StarCityGames.com. Not because I never expected him to do so – that’s no longer the case with anyone in the Magic world. No, what I was really surprised by was the fact that Mike immediately started churning out excellent articles for us. I love Flores’s writing, but the stuff he produced when writing for Brainburst wasn’t nearly the same quality as his Dojo and Sideboard work. Therefore, when he switched over to writing for SCG after a hiatus from writing period, I expected Mike to take a little while to get back on top of his game. That was not the case.
Mike’s second article measured up to some of his better articles from the olden days, and Picking the Right Plan, Basic Rogue Deck Design, and The Philosophy of Fire are among his best ever, though edt would complain that they are too long. I guess the reason why Mike’s immediate resurgence was so surprising is that I expected him to have lost a step in his old age. Many times those old guys write great stuff for a while, walk away from the came, and then can’t recapture the old magic when they come back to it. Mike’s not that guy. Objectively, I would expect someone who has been writing this long (and this frequently) would lose something in the clarity of his ideas, but that’s what makes Mike special. Is it possible that age has granted him wisdom that he didn’t have in his younger years? Doubtful… Mike’s still a buffoon, you know.
In baseball analogies, I view edt as a Koufax (he chose to retire), Hahn as maybe Pedro Martinez, Zvi as Bob Gibson, and Flores as Roger Clemens. No one has brought the heat as consistently and as long as Flores has, and even now he shows no signs of stopping. Sure, he’s loathed in Boston and Queens and can be a grumpy bastard at times, but that’s just part of his charm. He’s more personable these days than when he was younger, or so I hear
Speaking of Mike’s youth, here are a few platinum hits from michaelj’s early days on the Dojo that I recently migrated to the Star City archives, including what may be the most cited theory article ever. [Ferrett migrated Who’s the Beatdown years ago. He got tired of having to pull up web archives of the damned thing, and we have permission to reprint the Dojo in it’s entirety from the Sensei himself, we just haven’t had time to do so. – Knut]
Building Broken Decks
Volume I: The Wakefield Error and”The Decks to Ignore”
Volume II: Templating, etc.
Volume III: The Mail Bag and More On Deck Selection
Volume IV: Lessons from Texas
Volume V: More Mail,”More than Just Me”
Mike on Mike
I surreptitiously asked Flores what his own top 5 articles he wrote happened to be, without telling him I was going to call him a big, fat idiot beforehand. Mike, as usual, gave me something different than what I asked for, but more worthwhile anyway. I find it amusing that in spite of picking ten articles from his Dojo days to add to Mike’s Star City archive, only one of the links Mike sent me were among those listed above (though I have at least read most of them).
Geordie Tait favorite. Featured elsewhere.
edt claims that Investment is the third fundamental principle of Magic after Card Advantage and mana curve. Much as edt stole Chapin’s theories on a migration to combination as the format recognizes increased quality of cards and card drawing, I mostly stole Investment from Erik Lauer and published it myself. Good times.
Josh Ravitz favorite, if I recall. Hands down the best tournament report I ever wrote. And that’s saying something. [This may be my personal favorite as well. – Knut]
He already said that he thought Who’s the Beatdown put me on top of the mountain but after I wrote this, Rob stepped down and said that the reins were fully mine and that there was not longer any question. Brian Weissman wrote to me after this went up and said that he wished I had written it a year or two earlier — when he had first started to try to go pro — because he would have won a lot more money (rather than continuing to embrace his own School’s fundamentals in an increasingly speed-oriented Constructed environment). I dunno if the article is actually that good or not.
Interesting curiosity. This was, if memory serves, the single highest driver for impressions ever by a single article on The Dojo. This was the article that grounded my suppositions and woke us all up. I assumed Wakefield and Price were the most popular but was way off base. Traffic-wise, Zvi was consistently pretty good,”The Secrets of Yawgmoth’s Bargain” by edt was an excellent one-of (and he was pretty good in general), but this article was best. No idea why. Maybe because I was the editor? Most of the time it was me followed by some order of edt and Zvi in terms of top popularity.
My vote for article you’ve never read: Yawn. When you wake up, keep in mind that right after I finished writing this, I developed Napster. Go figure.
Hahn was an excellent writer, but Flores is the best ever. He has better skills, he’s had a longer career, he’s reached more players, and his work has stood the test of time. ‘Nuff said.
Now that I’ve proceeded to inflate Mike’s head beyond any reasonable measure, let me also point out that in spite of his greatness when it comes to the written word, he’s frequently wrong (like the not playing Flametongue Kavu incident mentioned at the beginning of this article), he’s loud, arrogant, stubborn, and is utterly lacking in empathy. If you talk to him and he tells you about a new deck that he’s been working on, please God test it before you play it competitively, because the number of players fooled into playing what Mike erroneously told them was the”best deck in the format” nearly matches the amount of players Mike has touched with his writing.
Oh, and Mike Flores is a Big, Fat Idiot. But you should know that by now.
Magic Writers’ Hall of Fame – Redux
When I floated this idea last year, it was generally well-received, though there were plenty of quibbles about who, what, when, where, why, and how. Regardless, I had planned to move forward on it when I received an e-mail from Thomas Pannell, former editor of The Sideboard, stating the Wizards would like to pursue this idea, and could I please leave it alone? Well, it’s a year later, Thomas doesn’t work for Wizards anymore and no one else has revisited the subject. Seems like it’s about that time again.
In my revised proposal, I advocated forming a committee to select members of the Hall, and at this point I’d like to follow through with that. If you are a notable person in the Magic community and are interested in the history of the game and particularly the writing, and you are interested in spending time debating ridiculously trivial things like a Writers’ Hall of Fame, drop me a line. This is not a committee that will be open to the general public (you know, the people who vote for Rewind over Dismiss), but the roster of voting members will be published so that the community knows who the representatives are. That way you folks can setup Political Action Committees, and lobby for your favorite writer until your heart is content while enriching our coffers.
And no, at this point I’m not particularly interested in whether folks feel this is a good idea or not. I went through that last year and enough people were for it that I made up my mind to run with it. The only thing that stopped me then was Pannell’s e-mail. (Oh the things we learn.)
I’m super busy for the next three weeks, but I hope to pick the idea up after Worlds and run with it. When I do, expect to hear more about this endeavor. In the meantime, I’ll give you a sneak peek at what the first ballot will look like:
Grand Prix Musings
Why is it that when you tell people there is more hate for Affinity in the environment, they decide to play Somber Hoverguard instead of Aether Vial? One of those two cards works regardless of whether or not your opponent is attacking your lands and plays a huge part in the explosive draws necessary for turn 3 and turn 4, while the other is completely uncastable in some games. These are the things that confuse me when I see players”tech-out” the best deck in the field.
When playing the Affinity mirror match (something I saw more times than I care to count in Orlando and expect to see again this weekend), there are three types of board superiority a player can achieve.
1) Combo Superiority
This involves having a Disciple of the Vault in play and some method to sacrifice your artifacts at will (typically Arcbound Ravager or Atog). This is still the trump card in the mirror match, though it can be complicated by a Disciple on the other side of the board.
2) Cranial Plating Superiority
The Plating actually sped the damned deck up, which wasn’t really necessary in the first place and has already been apologized for by Aaron Forsythe. Regardless, the player with an active Plating and a Blinkmoth Nexus (or Hoverguard, Ornithopter, what have you… a flier) is at a definite advantage.
3) Creature Superiority
Atog and Moriok Rigger are the first two that come to mind, but Myr Enforcer is another hefty beater that remains difficult to deal with in the mirror. What most people don’t realize is that Aether Vial is a massive aid in creature superiority, since tossing our free Atogs and Riggers while using your mana to draw cards or cast removal is a helluva speed boost. An additional bonus comes from the fact that the Vial itself is an artifact, and can toss out extra artifact dudes at one counter, meaning you get to cast Enforcers (or Hoverguards, if that is your bent) that much faster.
Anywho, I expect to see a wise open metagame this weekend. Affinity will be out in force, as will the usual suspects (Mono-Red, Tooth, U/G, U/W) plus an increased amount of the R/G hate deck (sorry Joe Bags, I’m not saying it). I still would expect to see at least two Affinity decks in the top 8, but after that it’s anyone’s guess. Thus far the Block has shaken out to be pretty interesting. I mean yeah, sure, Affinity is still ridiculous (a fact I may have mentioned many times back when informing folks that Clamp was likely to be banned), but the rest of the environment is surprisingly competitive.
If I were looking for a metagame deck, I’d peep the G/B decks with Echoing Decay in the main and Terror in the board, or I’d try to figure out if there is any way to splash Black into a mono-Red deck so you can Terror Green’s fatties. Thankfully I don’t have to worry about it… I just get to heckle BDM, Flores, Osyp, Ravitz and the entire New York/New Jersey area instead. (I hear Kai, Jeroen Remie, and Nassif will be in town for this one too, so it should definitely be good times.)
I’ll be blogging the coverage for Grand Prix: New Jersey on www.sideboard.com this weekend, and it will be good times for all, since we won’t have to post the results at the top of the match coverage this time. W00t!
Around and About
Speaking of coverage… along with New Jersey this weekend, I will be at GenCon covering the Vs Pro Circuit next weekend, then I’ll be at Worlds nine days after that ends for a whole week. If you need anything from me during that period of time, please be patient… I will get back to you as soon as I can.
[13:03] [Blunt–] where is gencon
[13:04] [mixedknut] indianapolis
[13:06] [Blunt–] what state is indianapolis in
[13:06] [mixedknut] Blunt…
[11:59] [ImAPhatAs] im gonna be a editer
Krempels: its actually not fair that one man should be allowed to lie that much and still be respected
[16:59] [Pikula666] i f***ed these guys
[16:59] [Pikula666] all 3 started losing as soon as i mentioned i was watching
[16:59] * Huey changes topic to ‘[Pikula] i f***ed these guys’
[16:59] [WorthWork] Maybe you inflamed them.
[16:59] [Paluka666] my penis was inflamed after i rogered your mother
[17:00] [WorthWork] jolly good!
Krouner: I don’t think you are drafting black properly
Bleiweiss: We’re going to arrange a time that we both can play in the same drafts online
Bleiweiss: And we’re going to do like 5 drafts where we’re in the same pod
Bleiweiss: and then you’re going to write an article about how I kept beating you in the finals/semis
Bleiweiss: And I’ll write an article about how I kept beating you in the finals/semis
[23:30] [knutedit] okay, there are NO dutch names that make it through teh spellchecker
[23:32] [WonkoSane]”teh spellchecker” 🙂
[23:33] [knutedit] some days I wish Jeremy would die in a fiery auto crash
[23:33] [knutedit] but others, I wish he’d just get third degree burns on 40% of his body instead
Mouth: what’s w/ the food posts, you knocked up?
edt: yes, i have a butt baby
[01:35] [mixedknut] mouth is shockingly funny
[01:35] [platyslp] ted: i disagree
[01:35] [platyslp] the guy rarely makes me laugh
[01:35] [platyslp] but then again
[01:36] [platyslp] he rarely msgs me for anything else but to try and convince me to drive up and sleep with him
[10:58] [dirkwork] there was an article in the cologne paper
[10:58] [dirkwork] about kai
[10:58] [Huey] I had an article about me once
[10:58] [dirkwork] that said he quit his professional soccer career
[10:58] [dirkwork] to mtg
[10:58] [dirkwork] 🙂
[10:59] [Victorvdb] I can’t imagine kai running :/
10:51 bigjilm: HAVE A NANTUKO SHADE FOIL
10:52 Blunt: you certainly do
10:52 bigjilm: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
10:52 Blunt: come on
10:52 Blunt: don’t bullsh** me
10:52 bigjilm: NO I DO
10:53 Blunt: limited edition foil or regular?
10:53 bigjilm: I’M NOT
10:53 bigjilm: TORMENT FOIL
10:53 Blunt: black bordered or white bordered
10:53 bigjilm: BLACK
10:53 Blunt: 2 casting cost or 3?
10:53 bigjilm: THERE IS NO WHITE BORDERED
10:53 bigjilm: 2
10:53 bigjilm: 2 BLACK
10:54 Blunt: damn, was looking for the 3 casting cost one
[17:46] [mdouglass] tim aten makes me force them to say”I’m an ugly woman” or else i wont concede
[17:52] [Pikula] Jakub Slemr smelled so bad at one of the invitationals i told rosewater I would not play him
[17:52] [Pikula] no matter what
[17:52] [Pikula] he smelled like he woke up, worked out, and then puked on himself to mask the sweaty stank
9:16 Bleiweiss: Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring bananaphone
9:16 Aten: what on earth lol
9:16 Bleiweiss: Ding dong ding dong ding dong ding bananaphone
9:17 Bleiweiss: It grows in bunches
9:17 Bleiweiss: I’ve got my hunches
9:17 Bleiweiss: It’s the best
9:17 Bleiweiss: Beats the rest
9:17 Bleiweiss: Cellular, Modular Interactiveodular
9:17 Bleiweiss: Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring bananaphone
[knutparty] so you never answered
[19:49] [knutparty] Indy or no?
[19:49] [GT] Nope, I can’t travel anywhere in the US, they’re afraid I’ll get deported if I try to get on a plane
[00:26] [Huey] I went to pick Yellowhat up today
[00:26] [Huey] at Dulles
[00:26] [Huey] and I got pulled over
[00:26] [Huey] for going 22 in a 15
[00:26] [Huey] not kidding
[00:31] [Huey] do u have any idea
[00:31] [Huey] how insane
[00:31] [Huey] it is
[00:31] [Huey] to be pulled over
[00:31] [Huey] for doing TWENTY TWO
[00:31] [Huey] and when he finally let me go
[00:31] [Huey] he goes
[00:31] [Huey]”Go the speed limit”
[01:01] [OMC] how was the event?
[01:02] [LoneGoat] it was ok, i was planning on 0-2 drink, but i was 0-2 by like 11.30am
[01:02] [LoneGoat] and the bar wasn’t open yet
Bleiweiss (5:02:31 PM): Say it. SAY IT!
PeteHoefling (5:02:54 PM): ?
BenBleiweiss (5:03:01 PM): 5:00 pm
PeteHoefling (5:03:20 PM): sigh…
PeteHoefling (5:03:23 PM): it’s blogger time
PeteHoefling (5:03:26 PM): there, happy?
Bleiweiss: Reader:”nice blog articles, Ben. keep up the good work (and write more often, dammit. :p)”
Bleiweiss: WTF, I’m writing 1.2 times a day
[16:14] [kaib] although i always draft green
[16:14] [kaib] which is the fix
[16:14] [Riptide_] (Anton Jonsson) if by”the fix” you mean”the stains” then yes
[16:16] [Riptide_] although right now im busy losing in the 4322’s so i should prolly shut up
[16:26] [WorthWork] hum
[16:26] [WorthWork] I wonder who I should believe about mtg drafting?
[16:26] [WorthWork] Kai or some stainsy guy who I’ve likely never heard of
[13:12] [Kibler] hail
[13:12] [Pale] rain
[13:12] [Kibler] sleet
[13:12] [Pale] smog
[13:12] [Kibler] snow
[13:13] [Pale] job
[13:13] [Kibler] blow
[13:13] [Pale] me
[13:13] [Kibler] anytime!
[13:13] [Kibler] i mean
[13:13] [Kibler] err