Your Burning Questions About Past In Flames (And Other Innistrad Innovations)

I am not 100% sure what a post-Goblin Guide RDW deck looks like, but my sense is Tree of Redemption is scarier, keeping in mind that one card is a fast three and the other is a slow four. Hero of Oxid Ridge has proven that Timely Reinforcements—as respectable a card as that is—can be beaten, and completely steamrolled for that matter. Hero of Oxid Ridge can of course attack happily into a Tree (and bring friends along), but you really have to deal quite a bit of damage to get done what you need to get done if the opponent stabilizes with one of these men Plants in play.

Tree of Redemption is a card that opens up its own series of potentially useful questions to ask:

1. How might it be possible for RDW to be fast enough to cripple or kill the opponent before Tree of Redemption hits, or at least comes online?
2. Let’s say they have the Tree (and that it is commonly played)… Does that necessitate a shift to black [or some other color] rather than mono-red? If so, what is a reasonable solution?

Tabling talk about Timely Reinforcements a bit (there are various ways you can get around giving the opponent the guys and / or the life, if you are clever)… How likely is it that people are going to run around maindecking Tree of Redemption? Can you in fact over the top them for 13+ in a single big move, especially if they can see it coming?

This wasn’t Arthur’s actual question, but I’ll answer it this way anyway: I think I would splash black and call it a day on this one.

I grouped the next two questions together because I would answer them the same way:

@IonicHawk
What’s the most powerful thing we can do now in the new Standard format?

@Drum_Bum_1021
What would you suggest I play for States this year?

I would play one of Value RUG-Pod or U/G Infect in the short term. I think that early on, many players are going to have either 1) untuned new decks that don’t actually use Liliana as well as they can, or 2) have some other less powerful neutered strategy from the previous format.

U/G Infect actually loses its awesomest feature (second-turn kill), but it is in a decent spot provided the field isn’t ga ga Red Decks… and I don’t know that it will be. Red lost Lightning Bolt and Goblin Guide while the rest of the format kept Timely Reinforcements or got Tree of Redemption. You know who doesn’t care about DI life total? U/G Infect.

Here is a sketch of U/G Infect for the post-Groundswell world:

U/G Infect

Mike Flores

Test deck on 09-25-2011

Standard

Creatures (16)

• 4 Ichorclaw Myr
• 4 Necropede
• 4 Blighted Agent
• 4 Glistener Elf

Lands (23)

• 10 Forest
• 5 Island
• 4 Inkmoth Nexus
• 4 Hinterland Harbor

Spells (21)

• 3 Livewire Lash
• 4 Mutagenic Growth
• 2 Apostle's Blessing
• 4 Gitaxian Probe
• 4 Titanic Growth
• 4 Ranger's Guile

Sideboard

• 4 Viridian Corrupter
• 4 Spellskite
• 4 Mental Misstep
• 3 Dismember

I added Necropede from the G/W version to help make up for the loss of some of the bigger pump spells (also BDM was always complaining about not having enough guys). We have Titanic Growth as a two mana +4/+4, albeit with no hexproof effect… that falls to Ranger’s Guile unfortunately (oh how the mighty have fallen… I would slay a man for a Giant Growth, a card I was too big thyme to play last time).

I certainly don’t know that this deck would be “the best,” but my sense is that it would nicely race Pod and probably crush any of the untuned non-“pressure + removal” new decks, with super-fast goldfish kills (likely inside of four turns even with the loss of the Cadillac +4/+4 spells) as among the most powerful things you can do in a format where the old decks are in uncertain territory and the new mechanics seem largely midrange.

@baddeacon
What do you think the format is going to be about with Innistrad? Mana? Trumps? Tempo? Card advantage?

I think this is a question that you have to answer in phases. Ultimately every format is about mana utilization, utility, usefulness. That manifests in more than one way, but basically the best performing deck in the format gets more out of its mana than the less performing decks. You can see this late game with iconic lockdown scenarios (Mageta the Lion invalidating whatever the opponent attempts to do with their mana), and you can see it in both the explosive openings of a turn-three Primeval Titan or the soul-crushing fourth turn of a Caw-Blade, attacking with Sword of Feast and Famine, then untapping to play Jace or leave up Mana Leak… Or even how a Bitterblossom ruined your day more and more turn after turn without tapping anything. Jace, the Mind Sculptor was backbreaking for the same reason; you have this amazing planeswalker that is either undo-ing your mana every turn (you spend however much for some dude, who is just getting bounced) or doing something worth a mana like drawing a card or keeping you from being able to draw something that is worth tapping mana for via the fateseal ability… At the same time the Jace player’s mana is left open for blue shenanigans.

That’s how pretty much every format ends up and matures; the trick is to see it and how you can outmaneuver other people also trying to get the most out of their mana.

Now in the short term, I think we have a different question. My guess is at the States level, most decks are not going to be great. In addition, we don’t necessarily know in which direction they are going to be not-great. My suggestion would be to play a proactive strategy that can win quickly (and “win” can be either a kill or overwhelming advantage), irrespective of what other people are doing. You want to be able to evaluate your opening hand and make smart mulligan decisions and play a deck that shows you how you can win. One of the above examples might be decent places to start :)

@TheElk801
Do you think Reanimator will be a deck?

I certainly think that there is some viability to Reanimator-style strategies. That is, the combination of Liliana of the Veil and Forbidden Alchemy can make for some seriously hairy third and fourth turns. For example:

Turn 1, Birds of Paradise

Turn 2, Liliana of the Veil; we both discard… I discard Jin-Gitaxias* :)

Turn 3, we both discard… this time I discard Unburial Rites. Are we having fun yet?

* You can substitute your favorite fat man for Jin-Gitaxias… I chose it on account of that’s what Brian David-Marshall used when he described this same situation that I am regurgitating here. Thanks BDM!

Or…

Turn 1, Birds of Paradise

Turn 2, Forbidden Alchemy. Impressively I have chosen to bin Jin-Gitaxias and Unburial Rites.

Turn 3, yadda Yadda YADDA.

I don’t know that I would approach the deck as a pure Reanimator, but as I have said elsewhere, I am totally fine with a Solar Flare / Solar Pox / The Masterpiece direction with a strong Reanimator sub-theme.

Another dubs, this time around Humans…

@OreoCorp
Does Humans being the bigger tribe numbers-wise let them have the best chance for a competitive archetype?

@lansdelicious
Will White Weenie Humans be a real deck?

Notable Humans from not-Innistrad:

1. Blade Splicer
2. Elite Vanguard
3. Gideon’s Avenger
4. Gideon’s Lawkeeper
5. Grand Abolisher
6. Hero of Bladehold
7. Mirran Crusader
8. Puresteel Paladin

Notable Human Newbies:

1. Champion of the Parish
2. Doomed Traveler
3. Elder Cathar
4. Elite Inquisitor
5. Fiend Hunter
6. Geist-Honored Monk
7. Mentor of the Meek

You have the baseline of a strong aggressive deck in Elite Vanguard and especially Champion of the Parish… That is, an eight-pack of offensively capable one-drops. Gideon’s Lawkeeper is a full on “not that bad” if we’re going with Humans redundancy.

Major loss is going to be Brave the Elements for this archetype (i.e. no big, versatile Falter / Counterspell), which is going to make it difficult for us to play the Paul Rietzl-style big punching game, though we can easily attempt a pure Humans aggro strategy, like so:

Mono-White Humans

Mike Flores

Test deck on 09-25-2011

Standard

Creatures (32)

• 4 Elite Vanguard
• 4 Mirran Crusader
• 4 Hero of Bladehold
• 4 Gideon's Lawkeeper
• 4 Grand Abolisher
• 4 Elite Inquisitor
• 4 Fiend Hunter
• 4 Champion of the Parish

Lands (20)

• 16 Plains
• 4 Inkmoth Nexus

Spells (8)

• 4 Honor of the Pure
• 4 Dismember

This gives you an effective curve of 16 / 12 / 8 / 4, topping up on Hero of Bladehold (a hell of a Human)… But no real punching power, which is the problem with decks like this. I guess you can get around blockers with Gideon’s Lawkeeper and Fiend Hunter, to the point that you might not need Dismember [maindeck], and you might want to go with +3 Guardian’s Pledge and another land.

On the plus side, this would be another one of those decks that is active, probably good at beating up untuned decks, and gets you where you want to go more often than not mana-wise. On balance, you can’t draw a card to save your life. Maybe some various Swords in the proposed Guardian’s Pledge slot?

@Grumpridge
Do you think any of the Day / Night cards will have any impact on Standard (not including Garruk Relentless)?

I am going to focus on Werewolves for the time being, in answering this question.

My main issue here is that barring some event (your opponent is mana-screwed, your opponent has no cards, or you essentially forgo your turn), you basically have some inefficient guy. Let’s reduce them to min / maxing for a moment:

1. 1G: 1/1; 3/3
2. 1G; 2/2; 3/3
3. 2G: 2/2; 4/4
4. 2G: 2/3; 4/6
5. 2GG: 3/3; 5/5
6. 4G: 4/4; 7/7

Of these, the most interesting to talk about are the two-drops (no surprise there). Mayor of Avabruck has some merit as just a Humans-pumper (i.e. around the previous section, maybe for a G/W deck), and he is actually pretty burly in Werewolf mode. He seems the awesomest, as making 4/4s is kind of insane.

Gatstaf Shepherd isn’t that bad. He is a 2/2 for two and then can produce an evasive 3/3. He is just full-on vanilla but might fit a slot.

The issue with these is that the opponent has some measure of control around the status of your guys. It’s like a Browbeat. Browbeat seems good no matter which side they give you, but it never really made a big splash because the opponent had so much control over what actually ended up happening. I would be a bit miffed if I put in a ton of work to flip some dudes / tables and then lost to a topdecked Ponder.

Related question, -ish:

@nayon7
What’s your take on the flavor, power level and design of the set, and on Double-Faced Cards?

Flavor… I reserve judgment. I want to get a sense of the flavor of these cards by actually playing them. To me the most deliciously flavorful card of all time is Form of the Dragon, and I am not seeing that yet with Innistrad, despite its professed top-down-ness… But like I said, some actual game play might transport me to the proposed world of horror.

Design-wise, I dislike them for logistical reasons. I’ll probably get over this as I primarily play 1) online or 2) in sleeves. This is almost certainly the kind of thing nitpickers nitpick about but that have very little real significance in the long term.

Power-wise they seem on the low end of what I would be willing to play, by and large. Bloodline Keeper seems like the best of at least the non-Werewolf bunch… It is an Emeria Angel that they can’t Doom Blade; plus has the transformative upside. I also enjoy the new Garruk; I think he is better than he looks at first glance.

@fork203551
Is it better to [M]ill them or you?

Interesting question!

I think it depends on the situation. Like in my DailyMTG article, I set up to try quite a few Nephalia Drownyards, and for some decks with lots of flashback, I saw it as not just a way to win but a potential enabler. Generally I would say this:

1. If you don’t have some kind of flashback theme / sub-theme, I don’t know why you would Mill yourself… Mill them!
2. Even if your intent is to Mill them, if they have a flashback theme / sub-theme, keep your Milling to yourself. And by “yourself” I mean find something better to do with your mana.

Questions related to tokens:

@travishall456
Will a Tier 1 token deck emerge with Parallel Lives?

@Bleighton1982
With all the token generators and boosters available, do you think a token deck will become a Tier 1 deck?

I’ll answer Travis’s question first… I am not a huge fan of Parallel Lives. It’s “I have to win the game” mana and doesn’t do anything by itself. If you are already churning stuff out with one of the three token-producing Garruk planeswalkers, then Parallel Lives is going to look bonkers… But I don’t know if you can reliably rely on it.

That said, there are certainly some great token tools at hand, in particular Intangible Virtue. I am also a huge fan of Geist-Honored Monk. I proudly kicked all kinds of butt in a Pro Tour with Belfry Spirit, and Geist-Honored Monk is going to be better, more often. Geist-Honored Monk is going to be the “Siege-Goat Commander” of some lucky deck, probably G/W.

Mentor’s Call and White Sun’s Zenith are two options from not-Innistrad Standard to consider… I think the question is going to be how much space you are willing to invest in non-token / non-token-pumping cards (i.e. Avacyn’s Pilgrim) or overall cards that only affect a percentage of your threats. For instance, do you try to double up on Honor of the Pure and Intangible Virtue in a G/W deck?

@ryantkar

[Is Past in Flames degenerate?] … It seems a lot like a certain Black favorite of mine…

I don’t know that it is degenerate. I tried making something with it (a control deck), and I actually ended up wondering if I wouldn’t rather just have some planeswalkers that didn’t handcuff my spell-type choices and allowed me to do more exciting things without using mana. I’m not really well versed in building mana snowball / storm-style combo decks, so maybe it is more abusive there… But my sense is “not in Standard.” My current opinion is that Past in Flames is a potentially good card that requires a fair amount of deck constraint to get much value out of it. Degenerate? I don’t think so. Reminiscent of Yawgmoth’s Will (ace of spades of my most famous deck)… Hell yeah!

@jando85
What are the best ways to exploit Skaab Ruinator? Explore anti-synergies between graveyard cards (e.g. Grim Lavamancer & Snapcaster Mage).

I am sure there are lots of ways to run a Skaab Ruinator, but my gut is to go Birthing Pod. As Patrick Chapin stated in his preview of the creature, you can just go Birds of Paradise → Viridian Emissary → Skaab Ruinator without actually having to go through the hassle of “casting” it. In addition, Birthing Pod decks automatically fill their graveyards with dead guys… so mise. One of them might be Skaab Ruinator, and he will have enough friends to pay his way out. I can even see playing lots of Skaab Ruinators in Pod, just because you don’t have Sea Gate Oracle anymore, so you might have room.

As for your second question, I don’t really see a conflict between Grim Lavamancer and Snapcaster Mage. They are both trying to do the same thing, actually… Gain additional value (up to and including “card advantage”) via the graveyard.

I would say that if you perceive a potential conflict, think very carefully about what you want to do with that card. It is like in Limited when you have a removal spell (let’s say a Doom Blade or some other versatile and contextually fast and powerful spell) and a potential attacker [i.e. “a Bear”], and your opponent has like a 2/3. Do you automatically remove it? How about if you know he has a Titan? You just have to show some discipline if your Snapcaster Mage has to buy back a particular sorcery. Sorry, Grim Lavamancer! That card just isn’t going to be fuel this turn.

I think there will probably be some mitigation in this arena based on the preponderance of cards that put cards in your graveyard. No Arid Mesas, maybe, but lots of things like Forbidden Alchemy and Jace, Memory Adept hooking a brother up.

@boowax
How aggressive will the coming Standard format be with the rotation of Caw-Blade and several speedy Innistrad additions?

I would guess Standard will be similarly aggressive relative to how it is today. Yes, there are some new attack spells, but the format is also losing Lightning Bolt, Goblin Guide, and so on. Moreover, there are some pretty good anti-beatdown type cards coming into the format (i.e. Tree of Redemption, Divine Reckoning), plus most of the dedicated anti-creature is still in place (Go for the Throat, Arc Trail)… Ultimately I don’t see the format as being particularly beatdown. Of beatdown, there will be some, but not a crazy amount in my imagination.

@psychmonkey1
Is Stony Silence better, worse, or equal to Null Rod?

Well… They cost the same total amount of mana and have identical rules text.

Null Rod is much easier to cast (you don’t need white), but also easier to remove (Ancient Grudge don’t kill no enchantments). As such, I would call it a wash but for the fact that we can actually play with Stony Silence, and Null Rod has been relegated to the mists of our long ago memories.

Stony Silence FTW!

@MorticonZX
What do you think is the “Tempered Steel”, “Tezzeret”, or “Birthing Pod” of this set so far?

I would guess the flashback / reanimator deck that comes out of Liliana of the Veil and Forbidden Alchemy (Solar Flare or otherwise), but I would need to actually play with and against the cards more to make an informed guess. None of Tempered Steel, Tezzeret, or Birthing Pod actually built themselves (you have at least two color variations of all three examples), but they all had cards that went well together… Innistrad might end up being more heavy-handed than that; I don’t know yet.

@Alfrebaut
Does Innistrad seem underpowered to you? How do you feel about the Transform cards that are out? Does Bella love Innistrad?

1. It does not seem underpowered relative to Scars of Mirrodin (first set of last year’s block). It does seem underpowered relative to certain other cards that we have been used to playing in the last year (Stoneforge Mystic, Splinter Twin, Primeval Titan).
2. Like I said before, I have to play them in order to form a “real” opinion, but Jushi Apprentice was one of my favorite cards a few years so, and the transform cards are very much like the Kamigawa flips.
3. Bella has not seen Innistrad to the best of my knowledge. She mostly looks over my shoulder while I run MTGO; she is not really at the point that she seeks out Magic a ton on her own.

@will1228
Is Snapcaster Mage an auto-include for U/W? Does Invisible Stalker upgrade pseudo Caw-Blade and make Swords viable again?

I think Snapcaster Mage is absurd. He might be an auto-include across the board for blue-based decks in Standard. He is certainly handsome!

In terms of U/W… I don’t know what that looks like, so I don’t know. I didn’t play him in my first pass at Solar Flare (which traditionally keys on bigger threats), but that doesn’t mean that I was right and Snapcaster Mage isn’t right. He is probably even better when combined with cheap, potentially mana-proactive stuff like Despise than he is with counterspells. I mean you can certainly two-for-one someone with a Dissipate, but leaving five open isn’t necessarily a write home to mommy proposition for mid-game mana utilization.

Invisible Stalker is an interesting card. I actually have a different opinion of where this can go, and I think I would bring ye olde Snapcaster Mage along for the ride. Why does it have to be Swords? Why can’t it be all Islands? I can totally see myself playing something like this card:

There are much worse combinations of cards I can imagine myself playing than Mono-Blue Snapcaster Mage / Invisible Stalker / Strata Scythe. We can make a go of it with Spellskite and maybe touch on Grand Architect or even light metalcraft. Why not bring in the Sword of Feast and Famine? You probably don’t have an appropriate planeswalker, but I can totally see this being a serviceable CounterSliver deck.

@Zuko501
What card from Innistrad do you predict will have the biggest impact on Standard?

Liliana of the Veil – Control can beat her, but it will probably cost them some red inclusion (or luck).

@piggyboy1
Is Draw-Go a real archetype again?

I think it is possible, but I would staple any number of asterisks to that. I would be afraid to have no consistent reaction against a Liliana of the Veil (i.e. they have an accelerator and / or they went first). I would also like to see some kind of a Capsize or Into the Roil as a general “get out of jail free” card, and I am not sure which is appropriate; I am sure that we have nothing on the order of Capsize or Into the Roil.

The value of Draw-Go originally was in super redundancy… You had Force Spike, then ten or so counterspells you could play on turn two. We have nowhere near that number of consistent reactive cards for the second turn; and if I recall, Mana Leak wasn’t even a four-of (the games were known to go long, and drawing Mana Leak was considered a liability). Yes, we have some good three-mana options, but even those are of declining value when you are going second in many matchups. When I played Jushi Blue and White Wafo-Tapa, we sided out Hinder on the draw in most matchups in favor of proactive methods of controlling the game like Drift of Phantasms or contextually relevant removal cards.

Today, Control has a lot of reason to tap mana on its own turns… planeswalkers, high-quality creatures, Control Magic and Clone variations, and Birthing Pod as a non-Draw-Go but still-generally blue incentive. At the same time, there are relatively few counterspells that can handle some of the fast and cheap stuff in the format… and I don’t just mean creatures. What happens when your counterspell is Dissipate, you are on the draw, and there is a Liliana of the Veil coming down? You can get out of it by being red, but you are pretty boned in a lot of other situations (and certainly straight blue). Is Draw-Go a real archetype? Full-on “maybe” … But I don’t think I would start there for my States explorations.

Whew.

That’s all I have to say about that.

LOVE
MIKE