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Going Infinite – How to Approach People and Pricing

Monday, August 30th – The art of trading can be broken down into many disciplines. Today, Jonathan Medina examines instigating a trade, and intelligently pricing your cards.

I love feedback. I thrive on it. This is because I am a relational writer. My writing is based on our relationship – you being the reader and me being the Yoda – rather than on topics. I am constantly searching for the next relevant topic in forum posts, emails, and instant messages. I’ve heard stories about how you guys have changed the way you think about trading. About how you’ve cleaned up your binder, and started to analyze people and cards in a different way. I’ve also received a lot of questions. Of all the feedback that I have received I feel like the underlying question is: “What’s the next step?”

I’ve received questions such as, “how do I sell cards?” and, “what do I do with all the bulk rares that I have been trading for?” These are important questions, and they will all be answered in time. The problem with these questions is that they skip the fundamental groundwork of trading to move to a different stage of the process. I want to focus today on the anatomy of a trade, and what skills you will need to gain value.

Before that, let me take this opportunity to talk about something I recognize as a flaw in thinking. There is an attitude about Magic trading and finance that is commonplace in all aspects of our lives. It’s the idea that if something isn’t easy, then it’s not worth our time. Maybe we intellectually acknowledge that putting time and effort into something will yield good results, but we don’t want to actually do that. We would rather have something spoon-fed to us. People want the Top 10 Tips for making good trades, or they want the quick formula to success in dealing cards, but these things don’t really exist.

The fact is that there is no easy way to “Go Infinite.” In a sense, the concept doesn’t really exist, because what you save in money you spend in time and effort. For some of you, all you have is time and effort, and I am happy to show you how to convert time and effort into a seemingly infinite collection and, if you’re good enough, into dollar bills. But in order to do this, you have to put aside the notion that I am going to give Umezawa’s Staff of Endless Money. If I had that, then I would be solving the water issue in Africa or acting out Lawrence from Office Space’s diversification strategy. Learning this stuff won’t be a cakewalk, but if you are ready to put your hand to the plow then you will do well. Now, let’s dig in.

Card Flow
I often talk about “gaining value,” but I haven’t yet taken the time to spell out what that means. As you start trading at higher capacities, your inventory (binder) loses its shape and becomes a stream of cards that flows in and out. This is called Card Flow. The idea is to gain value where you can as the flow of trades passes through. You don’t need to always gain value as long as the overall flow stays positive. As a matter of fact, you sometimes need to lose value on one trade to gain value on another; this is part of going infinite. Every flow of water has a “current.” In this case, the “current” is the structure of how you trade.

The trades themselves are the water, but the way you trade is what makes the water move. I’ll show you how I approach trading. It’s debatable whether or not this approach is correct, but it’s hard to debate the results. I recently traded a pack of Rise of the Eldrazi up to a Mox Pearl, if I can do that, then this approach can’t be too bad. Let’s start the flow of water, but before we do that, we need to find some people that are willing to trade.

Enticing People to Trade
If you are reading this, then chances are that you like to trade, but the majority of Magic players don’t particularly like trading. Even though it is one of the major accepted avenues for getting the cards, it can be viewed as a chore. If you want to be successful at trading, you need to understand this. Why should someone trade with you? What’s in it for them?

Whoa, wait a second… aren’t we supposed to be talking about what’s in it for us? Yes, naturally, we will get to that, but before that we need to explore the psyche of our trade partner. Trading is like asking a chick out on a date. If you want the girl to agree, you can be sensitive, thoughtful and persistent… or you can be a total jerk. Both methods work pretty well. This is true about girls, and it’s true about trading.

I have found that many Magic players, including myself, suffer from a touch of Outcast Syndrome. We all have, at one time or another, been belittled and/or mocked. This happens to everyone in life, but it seems to happen more frequently to the “geeks” and “nerds” of the world. Magic is a complex game, so it typically attracts intelligent and imaginative people who have this stigma. People who have been treated like crap growing up develop defenses to protect their sense of self. This understanding ties into how you approach people at the trade tables, and what attitude you project.

If you only look at people as a way to level up your trade binder, then you will exude that belief. You can say nice things, but the perceptive eye will spot the insincerity. This attitude will turn people off from trading with you, and it will make building a reputation harder, which in the end will affect your bottom line. If you approach everyone with respect and genuine interest in their needs, then they will be enticed to trade with you. I’ve seen situations where someone was trading with my buddy and they stopped mid-trade, saying, “I just can’t do it… You don’t seem like a nice person.” Then he left. This was not only hilarious, but it’s also a great example of how using the wrong approach can end a trade.

Before I move on, let me give you a small piece of practical advice. Some people don’t want to trade because they feel like their trade stuff is uninteresting. A lot of times when I approach people to trade they ask me, “What are you looking for?” I usually answer like this: “odds and ends, nothing in particular.” I answer this way to encourage the person to take their binder out. If I tell them that I am looking for Card X, they may simply say, “I don’t have that card,” and just walk away. You’ll notice that sharks and grinders usually answer in the same way. They are vague about what they want because they want you to take out your binder.

Surveying the Binder
Now that you have enticed your trade partner with your charm and genuine interest in their needs, it’s time to explore their trade binder. We’ve gotta make the money somehow, and their binder is where we are going to find it.

When I look over a binder, I check for how the cards are organized. This might give me insight into what kind of trader the person it. I also take a mental inventory of the cards in which I might be interested. I make sure to look through the whole binder, since I don’t want to miss anything. After looking through my partner’s binder, I lay down the trading protocol. It usually sounds like this:

“Go ahead and pull anything out that you see. I have multiples of most of the cards in the binder, so if you need more than one let me know. I see plenty of stuff in your binder at all price points.”

This encourages them to invest in the trade. It’s like when you test drive a car and the salesman says, “Go ahead, give it a little gas.” When you hit the gas, you feel like the car is yours, even if only for a minute.

As your partner pulls cards out, talk with them. Find out what they need the cards for, and make suggestions. You have to view this as if you are selling the cards that you are trading. I use this time to offer multiples of the cards that they want, and to pull the replacements for the ones that they might take, since I only keep one of each card in my binder. Once your trade partner has a pile of cards from your binder, then it’s time to get to the pricing.

Pricing Methods
This is where you make the money. There are two pricing methods for gaining value. The first is “Ask Pricing” (The Pricing Game), and the second is “Tell Pricing” (Dealing). Before you apply either pricing method, you have to get numbers for your cards. You can ask your trade partner to value your cards, or you can value them yourself. I prefer that my trade partner value all the cards in the trade, as this makes for a mutually agreeable trade and also gives you the opportunity to gain value. If they insist that you value your cards, then I recommend that you base your pricing on StarCityGames.com. It’s an online store that everyone knows and respects. It really doesn’t matter what your cards are valued at; what matters is the back-end math that happens when you convert the values to real dollars. Once your cards have values with which your partner agrees, you can move to pricing his cards.

The Pricing Game
I call the first pricing method “The Pricing Game.” I used to use the Pricing Game, but as my reputation grew, it became harder to find people who wanted to play with me. Here’s how it works: you ask your trade partner to value his cards. The thing is that nobody knows the price of every card, except maybe Ben Bleiweiss. What ends up happening is that they misprice a number of their cards, and you take the mispriced cards over the ones that they over-priced or priced “correctly.” You might have seen this done before… it looks something like this:

I’ll flip through someone’s binder and find a couple of cards in which I am interested. Instead of pulling them out and fighting with the guy about pricing, instead I simply ask, “how do you value the Lotus Cobra?” He says “twelve dollars.” I know that Lotus Cobra is worth more than $12, so I pull it out. Then I point to Coralhelm Commander. “How about the Coralhelm? How much is he worth?” The guy may respond “three dollars.” Since Coralhelm Commander is worth about $3, I would move to the next card that my trade partner undervalued, and pull it out. This goes on until I meet the number that we agreed on for my cards. Think about all the value you can gain simply by asking how much they value their cards, and by being selective. The other thing to remember is that gaining value is also based on how your cards were valued. If you valued you cards at StarCityGames.com pricing then you should only take stuff at below SCG pricing.

Some people have completely skewed valuing systems. If you run into one of these people, don’t argue with them. Just do the transaction in your head. If it adds up, then do the trade. If it doesn’t, then offer a trade that does work from the cards that are on the table. Other people try to thwart this method by using a phone to check pricing of everything that you are trading. That’s okay; it just means that you have to go deeper. Start checking the prices of cards that recently went up. If that doesn’t work, then just go deeper and start checking prices on the foils and or foreign cards. You will eventually find the dream within a dream, where the card has no data and your trade partner is going to have to guess. This is when it would be good to make an offer.

If you find that the pricing game doesn’t work for you, there is alternative.

Dealing
To pull off this method, you have to have a pretty sizable stock. This method allows you to ignore retail pricing and set buy-list pricing for stuff that is incoming. With dealing, there is a new breed of problems. Players don’t like trading with dealer types, but they will. This is why having a good reputation is important. You also might miss opportunities to make trades because other people are offering retail value when you are offering dealer pricing. This is why having strong stock is good, because even though you are offering dealer buy prices on their stuff, you have what they need.

Basically, the Dealing method is the same as the Price Game, but instead of asking them how they value their stuff, you are telling them what you will give them for a card. Here is an example.

Me: We have a total of $28 in cards on my side. I’ll just point and give you prices, and you tell me if you are okay with the number. Is that okay?
Them: Yes.
Me : Just so you know, I take bulk rares at .10, bulk foils at .05, and any promo at .25.
Them: Okay.
Me: Grave Titan, $11. Leyline of Punishment $1…
Them: Punishment is fine, but Grave Titan stays.

Pricing like this requires strong knowledge of buylists, as well as a good reputation and a good stock. Not many people can pull this one off, so I recommend that you try the Pricing Game first.

To do any of this well, you have to learn your pricing. I have written extensively on this topic. This takes work, and the best way to learn is to sell cards. You can also watch trades. This helps you get a feel for what people value things at. I am excited to here more feedback, especially as you start to play the Pricing Game. I’m going to drop you a stock tip and then get out of here.

Stock Tip

From the Vault: Relics — If you can get one of these for MSRP, do it. I recommend selling the box as a whole, as you can get at least $60 from StarCityGames.com for it. The other option is to open the set and stick it in your trade binder. If you find a Foil Junkie, you can level up!

It seems that people are getting smarter about these box sets. The last one was blazing hot, and it was difficult to get it for less than $100. This one has taken a different path. People are realizing that the singles will become available as other people open their sets.

If you want a FTV: Relic and cannot get it for MSRP, then my advice is to wait and try to trade for the singles individually.

Thanks for reading!

Jonathan Medina